We, the Rxmechanic team, have presented a well-detailed comparison of R134a vs. R12. But I've read that these car's didn't do too well in the a/c stakes, so that might just be as good as it gets. The car never overheats, if that has any import. 2022 nba 2k22 starting a fashion label signing the designer, a difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve, 2020 white paper of the church of pentecost, Chime Mobile Check Deposit Funds Availability, Why Does James Kill Donald In The Vanishing, nba 2k22 starting a fashion label signing the designer. Make sure to wear safety gloves, goggles, and shoes when theres a possibility of exposure to the chemical (R134a). Break out the new gauges and measure hi and lo at 1500rpm, and do the Merc FSM test to see how we're doing performance wise. Bookmarks: Digg; del . -------------------------"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." Could that be screwing up the systems performance?Anyway, when I installed the system, the new TXV (is that short for expansion valve?) The MB chart shows 360 psi with R12 in some conditions. Then at least I'd know really where I am on it. Is there a difference between a R134a expansion valve and an R12 TXV? ~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446. A slow loss of cooling at city speeds is usually related to condensor capacity & airflow issues. Just leave it alone for now. I have some experience with auto a/c but not too much. Debug the condensor (I am a computer nerd after all!)3. GWP is a measurement of Greenhouse Gases and their effect on Global Warming. -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a, Bohica, You say the drop in performance is not linear with too much oil. What effect would it have on performance, if any? Its chemical symbol is CH2FCF3. What is a T/C?4. July 3, 2022July 3, 2022. bokoen1 hoi4 the great purge / meryl and maks dancing with the stars / difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. Therefore, its most suitable for both commercial and domestic environments. I'm just trying to help you avoid headaches in the long run. Talk about what services you provide. It may take a couple of tries to get things really clean.The laser is usually close on clean surfaces, but I prefer a T/C. By: james smith underoath; Comments: 0 . This may be the source of your oil confusion. When ever possible you should ask the technician to note the same information on your repair bill and keep a copy in your glove box for future reference. R12 is otherwise called dichlorodifluoromethane is a colorless gas (chlorofluorocarbon halomethane (CPC) that is used as an aerosol spray propellant and a refrigerant, and is soluble in organic solvents. The higher the ambient temperature the higher the high side pressure. That is a good thing. Its cylinders are colored white. link to How to cut off a Catalytic Converter. R134a vs R12 refrigerant? Recovery & flushing is the only way out of an oil overcharge in your vehicle.B. and he synthesized R-134a in 1936, 5 years after R-12 was . of refrigerant insulation tape. by | Jun 21, 2022 | what is the most accurate latin translator | burlington iowa arrests | Jun 21, 2022 | what is the most accurate latin translator | burlington iowa arrests Nevertheless, if your application is configured only for R12, then you can use it or consider replacing the applications engine. If you have a perfectly operating system using R12 you do not have to drop what you are doing and convert to R134a. Please enter a password for your user account. Very nice! (You must log in or sign up to reply here. The oil used in R12 and R134a are different and not compatible. (On firewall where A/C lines go into cab.) R134a has the chemical formula CF3CH2F and is known as tetrafluoroethane. I cleaned the evap as best I could, if that is what you are getting at. Any ideas from the info above? How dumb!I will jumper the aux fan and redo the test. Any advice appreciated. Edited: Tue July 17, 2007 at 3:25 AM by bohica2xo, I believe there is only one switch - the refrigerant switch. If liquid refrigerant were to exit the evaporator. Table 1 summarizes the technical characteristics of three potential R134a alternatives. Failure to abide by the EPA regulations can result in expensive fines for either you or your service technician. 5. american sniper longest shot; how to adjust sunsetter awning arms; pastor jeremy roberts texas. ~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446. The R134a compressor has a 1/8" step in on the high side port. The Main change in the system is the expansion valve. If there is a resource I should read first to save you time, let me know. The safe high side pressures are determined with a PT (pressures and temperatures) chart. Gain access to our free AOP (Ask a Professional) Section to get real answers for your questions. The ozone depletion potential of a chemical is a factor that shows the level of degradation itll cause to the ozone layer that surrounds and secures the earth from harmful radiation. Therefore, the R12 refrigerant is illegal, and emitting it is illegal. ThanksPaul -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a. Discussion in 'Technical' started by Jsarnold, May 25, 2012. A vacuum pump, a refrigerant recover system, quality service gauge set with both low and high side gagues, and much more besides the lessons to learn what to do and what not to do. AFAIK, there is no clutch on the engine fan on the 240D. The value of carbon dioxide is 1. ~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446. The general practice of charging the system with 15% less refrigerant adds to the thermal deficiency of R134a. And yes - expansion valves sometimes need replacing if they are sticky - but a proper AC flush should eliminate the need for a new one if it's already in good condition. The common problem when converting from R12 to R134a is lack of knowledge or equipment. Also, R134a cylinders are light-blue in color. Its chemical symbol is CCl2F2. What is needed? Are you sure you have an R4? Then again, there are two different expansion valves. The system will be checked for gross leaks while under vacuum. The exact amount will vary with each car. This allows the refrigerant in the condenser to be void of oil particles. A lower GWP alternative to R-134a had to be found and thus we have the new 1234yf. Ask Our Pros-Owner Assistance - NO DIY advice will be given. Existing technology: R134a has been in use in the refrigeration industry for very many years, and theres so much information about the safe use of the product. Not going to mess up your 'do, but you can feel it. Bookmarks: Digg; del . You can also check the Aux fan in your case. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. This chart has a column of ambient (outside) air temperatures on one side and a corresponding range of high side pressures on the other side. I'm thinking of jumping the temp switch and leaving the fan on to see how it does. Most vehicles manufactured before 1993 have the R12 A/C system. Thread starter goldNSX; Start date 1 August 2009; Tagged . Is that reasonable?Vent airflow is good, I think. But R22 is almost equally damaging. This is 11F off the FSM performance graph - vent should be around 50F. BTW, I use a stick thermo in the vents and the laser on the condenser. If he is not in the garage fixing challenging mechanical problems, he is writing automotive repair guides, buyers guides, and car and tools comparisons. A/C receiver difference between R12 and R134a? The difference between the two is about 10,000 btu/h. Plus, not releasing the chemical into the air is morally justifiable. With tube & fin condensors in MVAC applications there is never "too much" airflow. Your old hoses of course will not fit. Do a pre-inspection and then Evacuate (vacuum down) the system, the longer the evacuation the better but there is a point of diminishing return, 2-3 hours is generally very good. Catalog E-1, Thermostatic & Automatic Expansion Valves / Page 1 Table of Contents . 4.R404A R134a increased mass transfer resistance to reduce the transmission chamber heat coefficient, while R507 heat transfer coefficient is higher than R404A. It would make a big difference at idle ,in traffic!! VerticalScope Inc. All Rights Reserved. 4) Inconsistent Airflow. Rxmechanic.com is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for website owners to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Does it matter - assuming both are new & uncontaminated? Fitting a PF condensor is not rocket science, but it requires some planning. The crossover point is approximately at 64F. It is made up of carbon, hydrogen, and fluorine. The flammables have hydrocarbons. . By using a qualified a/c shop with the proper equipment you odds are in your favor of having the job done correctly the first time. I'm thinking I might have put too much oil in the system - everywhere i read had a different amount - the manufacturer of the compressor, the MB factory service manual, online forums. The primary function of the design engineer is to make things difficult for the fabricator and impossible for the serviceman. 3 ounces? The analysis focuses on Coefficient of Performance for . But as there's not a big difference, people say you can suffice with either. An orifice tube is just a fixed nozzle that pisses refrigerant into the evaporator without any sort of feedback. Also, they are mostly used in refrigeration and automotive air conditioning systems. Not osmosis, but you know what I mean). So to keep things simple and to avoid controversy and politics we have R134a. In cases such as this, the required capacity value of the expansion valve with R134a is reduced by 30% (correction factor 1.42). In this study, without the need for major modifications to the bus air conditioner, the variation of the ejector dimensions according to different parameters has been investigated in the case of using the R1234yf, R1234ze(E), or R600a refrigerants, which may be a substitute for R134a as a refrigerant due to . I put in a new (not reman) compressor (R4 I believe it is) in my merc 240D, new drier, new expansion valve, new o-rings, nylog. What is a good differential? Condensers designed to release greater amounts of heat help to expel the greater amount of heat which R134a removes from the cars interior. In most cases, the systems used have varied components, designs, and service ports. Pound for pound R134a is a more efficient refrigerant than R12, however it runs at higher pressures in some aspects and therefore requires more effective condensing. R12 can move more heat than r134 so when it isn't very hot and the system isn't maxed out you wont be able to tell the difference but when its 110 out and the inside is 140 R12 will cool the cabin temp faster. Expansion Valve. Above this temperature, the saturation pressure of R134a is higher than that of R12; below, it is lower. The next piece of equipment to track down leaks is a leak sniffer. Usually, mechanics charge around $200 for conversion. Safety: R134a is safe to use as its non-flammable and cant explode. A capacity curve is shown in figure 2 for relative capacity of R134a vs. R12 for evaporating temperatures from 0F to 50F. You may be just fine on oil - it depends on what compressor you have & how much oil you put in.A T/C is short for Thermocouple. Heres some important advice Whenever you notice your R12 refrigerant is leaking, turn off all flames and open the doors so it can escape to the open atmosphere. Is there a difference in the expansion valve for R12 as opposed to R-134a? Paul:A 1983 240D should have a York compressor on an OEM system. I had a 1991 BMW switched to 134a by just changing the low pressure charging valve, flushing and refilling with 134 (maybe with 10% . They can be mounted quite easy,and there is a mounting kit that helps to hang it. It is mixed with the freon for the most part, and does accumulate in all components in small amounts. Best for varieties of operating conditions: Its boiling point is -21.6 Celsius. R12 and R134 are of different chemistry. ambulance tailgate conversion When the temperature is reduced to-7C or below, the plants ability to cool the airdrops significantly. I'm not sure. You should keep in mind that recharging your air conditioner improperly could result in more serious damage. don't know enough about the subject to explain the choices.However, a few days ago I called the dealer to see about an OEM TEV and they said something that made me feel a little bit better; the same part number superceded every application back to the '60s, and that they couldn't do that without engineering signing off on it.Still, I would feel a lot better if I could see something written officially that compared the flow characteristics and performance of r12 and 134a TEVs are concluded that they were interchangeable in automotive applications.If someone knows of such a document I would sleep much better!Walt Edited: Mon September 12, 2005 at 8:13 PM by wamcneil. R134a Refrigerant Recharge Kit with BPV31 Bullet Piercing Valve and R134a Quick Coupler, R134a/R-12/R-22 Freon Refrigerant Hose Can Tap Kit for A/C System - Easy to use. He used thermostatic expansion valve and Capillary tube for analysis with R12. Thanks so much Bohica - you've save me many more hours of fruitless speculation. Moreso, it had been banned. ing the expansion valve, a maximum opening superheat of 7F, and a standard factory air test superheat setting. In a car ac, using this type of freon 20 years ago was difficult. Besides R134a there are some other refrigerants that are approved to replace R12 and there is a long list of refrigerants that are not approved. We sometimes use a relay switched from the compressor clutch to run fans. Participate in over 40 different forums and search/browse from nearly 3 million posts. You may have heard of a friend that did the job himself with borrowed equipment and 12 or 16 ounce cans of refrigerant. Hopefully after you have read this entire page you will have enough information to determine which type of refrigerant is best for you. Instead, top off R12 with R134a refrigerant. Or is there always room for improvement, the more the merrier. In 1994 they switched from R-12 to R-134a. R-134a can actually cool better than R-12 in a well designed R-134a system as it has better thermoconductive properties, but all the high pressure issues have to be addressed.But even when these cars were brand new, didn't cool worth a damned, recall almost dying in one in Las Vegas at the time, but a good way to lose weight with gallons of perspiration pouring out, just don't let that drip on the seats, that is inappropriate. A. Pressure/temperature table for R12, R134a, and R513A is shown in Figure 1. . The aux fan didn't switch on though and I didn't check the high side temperature. R134a was selected as a replacement refrigerant for R12 because R12 contains chlorine and has a major effect to ozone layer depletion. If you find any of these conditions you will want to liquid flush (with dedicated AC flush solution) all the lines, condensers, evaporator (remove the expansion valve) before you proceed further. The difference between R12 and r134a is the BTU carrying capability. At the moment, the ac is acting up - will work fine for about 15 minutes and then slowly the vent temperatures rise until the compressor switches off. For example, if your system originally had 36 ounces of R12 then you multiply that by .80 and you have 29 ounce of R134a. Its duty is to convert toxic gasses produced by the engine into A brake cleaner is a powerful solvent for cleaning dirt from the brakes and other car components. Then I'll put the ball valve in on the coolant and test it and see what we have. Electric fans do wear out. We've updated our forums!Click here to visit the new forum, Year: 1983Make: MercedesModel: 240DEngine Size: 2.4Refrigerant Type: R12Ambient Temp: 90Pressure Low: 35Pressure High: ?Country of Origin: United States, Hi, this is my first post, so please take it easy on the noob. We say generally because the vehicle manufacturer may have a formula already worked out for the R134a conversion process. It is common for eurocar threads to go multiple pages, and as Nick points out - sometimes cool is all you will ever get. R12 is highly destructive to the earths ozone layer. R12 is CFC: Even though R12 is one of the most commonly used refrigerants, it is CFC. How an A/C Expansion Valve Works. Anyone know what happens when an R12 expansion valve is used in a system charged with R134A? Please enter the name by which you would like to log-in and be known on this site. R12 contains a chemical called chlorine that destroys the ozone layer, thereby causing potential environmental risk. The chemical composition of R12 and R134a differ. Performance doesn't seem to have improved. MB has specfic test parameters for performance, but you can always test at max load - doors open fan on highest speed.The oil overcharge looks like a parabolic curve. Trinary Pressure Switch quantity. Is checking the temperature of the in and out of the condensor not the easiest way to tell if it is doing a good job or not? It will work and there will be very little, in any difference in performance.As Chick stated, the difference is only the gas used in the sensor tube. This refers to BTU's (heat) moved per pound of refrigerant moved. Hence, the effect of R12 on global warming is up to 10,000 times higher than carbon dioxide. ESP when a compressor has frozen. Quick View. Note that passwords are case-sensitive. If there is no pusher fan, and you have the room, put one in. You will be fine with a 134a-compatible TXV running R12. video clubhouse baseball; nick fairley draft profile; ben davis work pants Where would I get some basic info on it, I know nothing about it. Reattach the hose lines using new R134a compatible o-rings, lightly lubricate with compressor oil. Stability: RR12 doesnt disintegrate even under extreme operating conditions. Miscibility with oil: R12 can be mixed with the compressor oil no matter the operating condition. It can be used applications like walk-in coolers, food and dairy display cases, domestic refrigerators, and beverage dispensers and vending machines. The best replacement for R134a is R1234yf, while R12 refrigerant replacement was R134a. The original CFC expansion valve used for R12 needs to be replaced with an HFC one for 134a to feed the evaporator correctly. PaulJerky King -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a. Since 2010, all home AC systems manufactured use a refrigerant like R134a that has zero ozone depletion potential (ODP). We recently created this blog site to enable us to share our knowledge with other automotive mechanics and car owners. There is a lot of differences between the R12 and the R134a fittings, you can't mistake them.
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